Chuck Magro, President and CEO of Nutrien

Chuck Magro is President and CEO of Nutrien. The worlds largest provider of farm inputs, services, and solutions.

The company supplies more than a half a million growers around the world with everything from fertilizer and seed, to the latest digital tools that increase crop production.

Chuck is hardly your stereotypical CEO – he’s a die hard heavy metal fan! Yep, a metal head. Still walks around town in a Metallica t-shirt. He wakes up every morning at 4am to write in his journal. And he doesn’t golf, he shoots! 

In today’s episode, Chuck talks about his optimism for Canada and Canadians, why the fight against climate change is a great business opportunity, and the importance of prioritizing home life and family.

The transcript can be found here. Please note that the transcript is unedited.

Goldy Hyder:

Welcome to Speaking of Business, conversations with Canadian innovators, entrepreneurs and business leaders. I’m Goldy Hyder of the Business Council of Canada. Today, I’m speaking with Chuck Magro. Chuck is President and CEO of Nutrien, the world’s largest provider of farm inputs, services and solutions. How big is Nutrien? Well, think of it this way, next time you sit down to eat, chances are, Nutrien helped put some of that food on your plate. The company supplies more than a half a million growers around the world with everything from fertilizer and seed, to the latest digital tools that increase crop production. Chuck is hardly your stereotypical CEO. He’s a die-hard heavy metal fan. Yep, a metalhead. Still walks around town in a Metallica T-shirt. He wakes up every morning at 4:00 AM to write in his journal. And he doesn’t golf, he shoots.

Goldy Hyder:

In today’s episode, Chuck talks about his optimism for Canada and Canadians. Why the fight against climate change is a great business opportunity, and the importance of prioritizing home life and family. I hope you’ll enjoy the conversation. Chuck, thank you so much for doing this.

Chuck Magro:

No, Goldy. Thank you.

Goldy Hyder:

It’s good to see you. You and I have a bit of a history, so we should disclose that to our audience. We do know each other, we’ve worked together. But let’s start first and foremost by introducing our audience to Nutrien, who is Nutrien, why is it that most people here may have not heard of Nutrien?

Chuck Magro:

Well, Nutrien is the combination of Agrium and PotashCorp. Yeah, we have a new name, so Nutrien. It is the world’s largest crop inputs company that we’ve built. We’ve got about 25 000 employees in 14 countries, probably Canadian, but we are also an international operating company.

Goldy Hyder:

So a true global champion based right here in Canada?

Chuck Magro:

We like to think so. Yes.

Goldy Hyder:

I just wanted the audience to get a sense of who Nutrien is and who you are as its CEO, and how proud we should be as Canadians that this is here. I will return to that theme. But let’s go back to the beginning of your own journey. Your parents immigrated to Canada from Malta. We’re taping this in December 2019 when Malta seems to be in the news, you don’t want to be Prime Minister of Malta do you?

Chuck Magro:

No. I haven’t been called yet.

Goldy Hyder:

They’re sitting in Malta, and I understand their choices before them were Australia, and Canada. Why did they choose Canada?

Chuck Magro:

So my dad was in the British Air Force, and he’d just married my mom, and they were looking at what was happening in Europe, and they were just going to start a family and they felt that they’d have more opportunities for themselves and their children to go to another country. The two decisions, because my dad was an electrician, so a tradesperson. The two countries that were hiring tradespeople at that point were Australia and Canada, I think they had thoughts on both, it was a really close call. But they selected Canada because, well, the way my dad tells the story is, they just felt Canada had more opportunity being so close to the United States. So I think that that’s why they picked Canada. So they borrowed $300 off of my dad’s older sister, my aunt Mary and they came to Canada.

Goldy Hyder:

Brothers sisters?

Chuck Magro:

I have a sister. She was first born, she’s older than me four years.

Goldy Hyder:

You were born in Ontario?

Chuck Magro:

I was born in Windsor, Ontario, and my dad worked for Ontario Hydro. Once he got settled, and he worked as a bartender, and as a waiter, and he worked at a casino jobs until finally they recognized that he was a tradesperson, and then he finally got somebody to do him a favor and he landed on Ontario Hydro.

Goldy Hyder:

How long were you out East?

Chuck Magro:

Well, I grew up there. So I was out East until I went to university when I was 18. I finished my university education in Ontario, and then we left Ontario in around 2000.

Goldy Hyder:

It’s like we traded, I left over Ontario at 2000. So I guess I’ll probably got the better of this deal. But it’s interesting, and I want to come back to this because national unity seems to be a big issue these days. But before we do, tell me a little bit more about what you remember from your childhood, just life growing up in Ontario as a new immigrant?

Chuck Magro:

It was normal for me, so I didn’t know anything else, right? My dad worked and my mom was a dressmaker, so she owned her own dress shop. We were a family of hard working entrepreneurs. I was a normal kid, I played soccer and hockey because that’s what Canadian kids did back then. Then I worked on a dairy farm in the summertime.

Goldy Hyder:

You were 14 when you got this job?

Chuck Magro:

Yeah. So I had my paper route, I started my first job at 12, and I loved that for two years. But then when I was 14 I took a job as a hired hand on a dairy farm, and that family, the Mitchell family in Ontario in Nanticoke, they took me in and I spent every summer for four years working with them and spent every meal with them, because the farming in the summertime is a really long day. So they were my second adopted family and I’m still in contact with them today, but that’s where I had an appreciation for hard work and for agriculture and for farming.

Goldy Hyder:

In terms of being an entrepreneur, and learning about money and the value of money. Do you think those experiences shaped you for the journey that you had heading?

Chuck Magro:

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I don’t know where to begin. I was making when I was 14, that’s $75 a week working probably 80 or 90 hours. The hardest work I’ve ever done in my life, and you have a whole new appreciation for the effort and the hard work that they put into feeding the world and producing a crop and raising their own families.

Goldy Hyder:

Talk to me about the values in the home. How did your parents raise you and your sister?

Chuck Magro:

When I look back on my childhood, education was key. So my dad always taught me that you need a strong education, and then you can do whatever you want in the world if you get the right education. Hard work was always part of it. He was a hard worker, my mom was a hard worker. Also, he allowed us to explore our own thinking though, he didn’t kind of lecture me in terms of how to think about politics or religion or any of the big issues of the day. We had lots of open discussions at the dinner table, we sat and had dinner every night as a family, and that’s where we explored life and conversation and what was important, and that’s how I think I learned my values.

Goldy Hyder:

So this journey to becoming a leader, to becoming a CEO. Was the education you received, in your mind the beginning of the journey of you becoming a CEO or was that so far removed you hadn’t even thought about something like that?

Chuck Magro:

Certainly, not the objective of becoming a CEO. My dad was an electrician. So at the top of the ladder when you’re an electrician is an engineer. So he sort of led me to, “You need to be an engineer, and in order to be an engineer, math and science is really important.” I didn’t even know what an engineer was to be honest with you when he started talking about it. But why not? It doesn’t sound like a plan, much as just a journey.

Chuck Magro:

Look, I never had a plan to become a CEO or living your life in a boardroom or anything like that. It was so far removed from where I come from, and I have a passion for building things. So I wanted to build a business, and I fell in love with business pretty much when I was 16, 17 years old, that’s where the trying to have my own money, my own independence. Seeing my mom run her own business, my sister today is an entrepreneur, and I have a deep respect for what she does. But there is no plan to become a CEO. I think, I know people talk to me all the time about, “Chuck, I want to be a CEO and what do I have to do in it?” It’s not really that simple, it’s not, it’s good to have objectives, but to have an objective of CEO, you’re going to work your whole life for something you may or may not get.

Goldy Hyder:

You said you played hockey and soccer, and did you ever grow up thinking I want to be in NHL, I want to be-

Chuck Magro:

Well, if you see the size of me, I know it was, It was never going to, again-

Goldy Hyder:

Come on, this is the home of Theoren Fleury, and we believe in the little guy.

Chuck Magro:

That’s true, the little guy. As a child of course, you have aspirations to become an NHL hockey player if you play hockey, but I also knew that that was never going to happen and an education would probably be a better part of my strategy.

Goldy Hyder:

Well, it seemed to work out well, I mean, you make it sound like it was a long time ago. But the reality is that you were 44 when you became CEO of Agrium. So you probably came out of your MBA school at about 22 or 23, something like that. Pretty good run in 20 years.

Chuck Magro:

Yeah.

Goldy Hyder:

What do you attribute that to?

Chuck Magro:

Yeah, luck. Honestly, I had about 20 jobs in those 20 years to get me to be a CEO and I joke about luck, but-

Goldy Hyder:

You got to make your luck, don’t you?

Chuck Magro:

You make some luck and you have to be hard working, you have to deliver everything in terms of your daily jobs. But I had some mentors along the way that took a very strong interest and shaped my professional experience, which I think, if I had one piece of advice for anybody listening is, mentorships are super important, equally or more important than a formal education. But part of it was luck, I came to Agrium in late 2009, not knowing that there was going to be a CEO succession process starting almost as soon as I got there. So how would I have ever known that?

Goldy Hyder:

Right. Do you have mentors now?

Chuck Magro:

I’ve always had a mentor and they’ve been different people because I needed different development as an individual or as a professional. Today I have a mentor that is a retired CEO, that’s been there, done that, sits on some prominent boards, and it’s less formal now. It’s really a breakfast or a coffee, just to chat, but it’s still important to have a sounding board in life. Of course, my partner Angela is a very important part of that as well, but it’s always good to talk to somebody that’s been in your chair, especially as a CEO.

Goldy Hyder:

Well, you raised Angela, why don’t we talk about Angela? Tell me how you met her?

Chuck Magro:

Well, Angela and I met a really long time ago.

Goldy Hyder:

High School, right? Or it was even before that?

Chuck Magro:

She was in high school.

Goldy Hyder:

Oh!

Chuck Magro:

She was in high school. [crosstalk 00:10:24]. I was in first year at university. So it was-

Goldy Hyder:

I’m sure her dad was thrilled to meet you.

Chuck Magro:

Yeah. It was a blind date to be honest. It was a blind date through a friend, and we’ve been together almost ever since.

Goldy Hyder:

You just implied that she’s tough on you?

Chuck Magro:

Angela grew up in a great family in a small community just a few kilometers away from where I grew up. But I never met her until like I said, I went to university.

Goldy Hyder:

Is she tough?

Chuck Magro:

She’s supportive. She’s a no BS type of person. She keeps me grounded and she keeps me centered, and we’ve been on this journey together for many years now.

Goldy Hyder:

Now, I know you’ve had the good fortune of being surrounded by some really intelligent women. There’s a major push on now for more women in the boardroom, more women in the C-suite. What are you doing to keep that going?

Chuck Magro:

Yeah. First of all, this is a no-brainer for me. I know it’s important that we measure it and we’ve set objectives. But for those leaders that haven’t had a diverse team, you’re missing something. In fact, you’ll only have half the answer that you’re going to need to be successful-

Goldy Hyder:

And diverse in every sense of the word?

Chuck Magro:

Every sense of the word. I know we were talking about gender, but every sense of the word. We’re trying to do the same things at Nutrien, we’ve made the commitment, starts with our board, and we’re aggressively trying to be more diverse. We’re seeing the benefits in our recruiting, because people are concerned about this right now, and I think it is so important that we get it right. But as I said, I think we can’t really function and deliver our purpose and our Strategic Plan without having just the right workforce.

Chuck Magro:

The way I think about this quickly, Goldy is, you walk through a Walmart grocery store, it’s all about food. Hey, look who’s buying the food? It’s every walk of life. So how do you understand our customers’ customer as a agricultural company, if you don’t have the same representation, and the same look as that? So my goal to my team is quite honestly, is I want Nutrien to look like a Saturday at Walmart.

Goldy Hyder:

And reflect.

Chuck Magro:

Why isn’t that the goal? I think when you kind of put it that way, it makes it so simple. Of course, that’s what we need to do.

Goldy Hyder:

When I meet with you and I meet with other CEOs, the tension or in many cases, the answer to the question, “What keeps you up at night?” Is, “What’s going on in the world?” How are you managing that, the trade wars, the tariffs, the attack on multi-national institutions, the decline in multi-lateralism, the unpredictability of the global environment, the slowdown of GDP, shall I go on? I mean, how do you deal with that every day?

Chuck Magro:

It’s all real, and it’s all there. And you can drive yourself crazy literally, thinking through it all. I think you have to keep in mind the purpose of your company. So-

Goldy Hyder:

What is it? What is the purpose?

Chuck Magro:

Our purpose, we state that it’s to grow our world. I think that’s really important because we’re in business as a company to help farmers produce food. We feel that there’s almost an altruistic need, a critical need to do that, because there’s still people that go to bed every night with malnutrition issues. We also think that we have to be more sustainable, we have to produce food that’s more healthy, more nutritious. That’s really what gets us up in the morning every day to fight these battles. The rest of it, if you’d focus on that, and you do a really, really good job, and it’s a compelling vision and people will get excited to work with you. Over time, it will work itself out, and we’re big believers in just focusing on our purpose.

Goldy Hyder:

Well, many global CEOs are now putting that at the epicenter. Larry Fink at BlackRock and others have come out and challenged all businesses to have a purpose. The next gathering in Davos will be talking primarily about the role of business to do good in society. So, despite that though, businesses come under attack, they’re fighting uphill battles with stakeholders, with governments and others. What are you doing, what should business be doing to deal with this new reality? Including a reality in which I didn’t mention this, but obviously, one of the issues of our time if not the issue of our time is climate change. That must be having a big impact on your business, how are you managing big things like that, and what should we be doing as businesses beyond articulating our purpose?

Chuck Magro:

You’re right, absolutely. Solving these issues … So let’s talk about climate change and participating as a company to really contribute to improving climate change is not only the right thing to do for the planet and humanity which goes without saying to be honest, but it’s a huge business opportunity, and I’m a businessman. So I see this as the best of both worlds, I get to do what’s right, and what’s needed and what’s mission critical. But I also think that there will be just massive value created for all of our stakeholders, if we can get that right, and if Nutrien can contribute in the right sense to what we would call climate-friendlier climate smart agriculture. That’s why we’re investing literally billions of dollars in the last just few years to build our portfolio of our products to be more sustainable. We’re investing in advanced analytics in new products, and new scientific methodologies to really improve the way agriculture can contribute to climate change.

Goldy Hyder:

The other thing that’s going on in the world is of course, this China-US battle. You compete with the Chinese. How do you see Canada positioned to stay out of this battle between the two of them, but also assert our own influence in the world? How do we get forward in this new world?

Chuck Magro:

Yes. We do compete with the Chinese, but they’re also a major customer. They’re the largest producer of food, and they’re one of the largest producers of many of our competitive products. So it’s an interesting relationship like most of the world now. So the way the trade war is kind of influencing my world is, of course, the tariffs are raising prices for many of our products, and it’s shifting global trade patterns. And to try to pick this side and to understand where that’s going to end up is very difficult for us to understand. But again, the way we think about these things, we’re hopeful that this is short-term in nature, but who really knows. But the world needs the food. So the trade patterns will shift, but the overall demand for our products and services are still going to grow, because the human population is still growing.

Chuck Magro:

So what we’re trying to do is to build a business that can withstand the trade volatility by diversifying where we produce our products, where we invest in different markets. For example, the US-China trade situation right now, the Brazilian farmer is really benefiting. Because the trade war is putting the US farmer and the Canadian farmer right on the front lines, and they’re really feeling the pressure. But the Brazilian farmer and the Australian farmer are being the beneficiaries of that battle, and we’re growing our businesses in both of those jurisdictions, so I can’t predict the future. So one way to make sure that we are successful longer-term is just to diversify the overall business.

Goldy Hyder:

Now back here at home, an area where I think Nutrien and its predecessors have extensive experience, and it’s an issue of our time again, and that is the issue of engagement with indigenous communities. What are the lessons learned? What’s the right approach? How do you see us moving forward in unlocking some of this gridlock?

Chuck Magro:

Well, again, I see it as a massive opportunity for industry. So I’ll give you our real life example. Right here in Saskatchewan, the indigenous groups are of course a major resource group for our employees. But they’re also a key partner for a lot of our contractors and supply partners. We have special, a special group that works directly with the indigenous groups, and what we found is that there’s a really nice win-win-win for the indigenous groups, for Nutrien, and I think for the community when we get that combination just right. I’m not suggesting for a second we’ve figured it all out. We’ve had though, a very good track record of working closely with most of the indigenous groups to move our business agenda forward and their social agenda forward. Because we want the same things. We need a high quality workforce, they want to put more people to work. They need help in their communities, and the way that do you do that is you build strong businesses to support those communities, and they’ve been great supply partners for us.

Goldy Hyder:

Recently, you accepted the responsibility of chairing a task force for us at the Business Council of Canada, co-chairing it. In an article when you were talking about your experience here, you had a bit of an epiphany I think, in which you said, “Business has to be about people.” Why did you say that?

Chuck Magro:

Because I think we forget, business people you go to school, you learn a language that is not quite the same language of everybody else, and you sort of speak that talk. Then we try to go to, if you have children, you talk to your children about it, but when they look at you, and their eyes glaze over. They have no idea, and you forget of why the company again is trying to do what it’s trying to do-

Goldy Hyder:

Its purpose.

Chuck Magro:

It’s the purpose. The purpose is about people. So my view, and I’m glad that I was able to participate as a Co-chair of this effort, because I think it is so important, is we have to get backed as business to talk about the impact of what we do, but in a normal sense to talk to people about the impact to their everyday lives. Because our social services and the quality of life and all the things that we all value for ourselves and our children and our grandchildren are built on a foundation of business. But sometimes we don’t communicate that properly, and that’s really important, because I think there’s a symbiotic relationship between business and society that we need to get better at speaking to in a more frank manner.

Goldy Hyder:

How much of this is our culture? It’s been pretty easy to be Canadian. We’ve had a good run.

Chuck Magro:

We have, and I think like many different groups and societies and countries, we may have gotten a bit complacent. Because we’re blessed. The Country is blessed with natural resources, and sometimes it’s easy to take that for granted, because the market needs those resources and that will always be there. But what we’ve seen in the agricultural industry is there’s some fierce competitors now, they’re really driving their agriculture-

Goldy Hyder:

Their culture isn’t so complacent, is it?

Chuck Magro:

Well, what I’ve seen is they’ve put a focus at the heart of business to drive impacts to quality of life. And look, we have a large middle class, I know everybody talks about, “Well, really, how big is it and what is the definition?” I don’t want to get technical, but it’s nowhere near the size of India and China’s, and I’ve been going to those countries for 20 years now. You can see the middle class growing, and it’s growing because their economies are growing, and there is a relationship here that we need to understand and be sensitive to.

Goldy Hyder:

Yet, here we are in Canada. Just witnessed an election in which not a single political party offered an economic growth strategy. We are here in Calgary, a place where a movement is slowly getting steam, their frustrations with their Federation. I know you have very strong views about this and very strong views about the Country. How worried are you about Canada?

Chuck Magro:

Well, it’s certainly a situation right now where I think we need to listen to what’s being said. It’s concerning when people are talking about leaving the Federation, whether people believe it or not, if it’s being said, we should listen. But my view when I talk to people in Alberta and Saskatchewan, which I spend a lot of my time in. People are afraid, they’re afraid of their future, paying their mortgages and their car bills.

Goldy Hyder:

The anxieties?

Chuck Magro:

The anxiety is this high. So then when you hear that, that language come across in terms of, there must be a better deal or we need to do something differently. It’s coming from a place that I think we need to understand, and we need to be thoughtful on. Okay, well, how do we engage with the conversation? How do we make sure that people are feeling heard?

Goldy Hyder:

Those people work for you?

Chuck Magro:

I mean, well, we have 8000 employees in this Country. When our employees talk to us about these things, I think what they’re looking for is, “Okay, what can business do? What can the government do? What can all the stakeholders do?” I think what you’re hearing right now from Western Canada is, “We’re not feeling that we’ve got a seat at the table where these concerns are being understood, being recognized, and being thought about,” and that’s I think what people want to hear, is that they have equal voices at the table. I think that’s incumbent on all of us, to ensure that we move towards that direction.

Goldy Hyder:

There’s a lot there to unpack. But let me just ask you this, are we going to be okay?

Chuck Magro:

I’m an optimist Goldy. I think that this is a, I don’t want to diminish it, because it’s not fair to diminish it. But I think that this is something the Country can get through. I absolutely, fundamentally, in the deepest part of me believe that we can get through this. But we need to change because the world is changing. We have to find the right balance of having a strong growing economy, at the same time, manage the challenges that we have when it comes to climate and other real big issues. But Canadians are up for this task, they always have been.

Chuck Magro:

Look at what we did, two weeks ago, I was in France and I toured the World War I and the World War II Memorial sites, and it’s the first time I’ve ever done that. It was absolutely touching, but the reputation of Canada after World War I, after World War II, we were a name on the world stage. Now we paid for that with our lives, but we stepped up as a Country. So I think it’s in our DNA as a Country to rise to these massive challenges. I’m confident we can, but I do think we need to start listening to each other. We’re not listening to each other. We’re talking past each other.

Goldy Hyder:

Wise words.

Chuck Magro:

I hope so.

Goldy Hyder:

Wise words. Because I do think that there’s a lot of parallels here between the journey of becoming a leader, the journey of building a nation, the journey of building a business. Adversity plays a big role in those experiences, and it’s unfortunate, because it may take that cataclysmic moment of getting us to focus. Yet, what you’re saying here is this is not all about government, and not even all about business. Where does society fit into this? Because we as Canadians, and I’ve often heard it said, ” A Country born on third, things are getting triple.” What do we need to do as Canadians to kind of wake up to this new competitive reality out there, a reality which we’re seeing every day, as you’re seeing in terms of capital flow, in terms of talent flow? Do you have that confidence that we as Canadians, despite that resiliency that you’ve just described, that we’re getting what’s going on out there?

Chuck Magro:

I think there’s some work to be done there, I will just start with our own Country. The east needs to listen to the west, the west needs to listen to the east, and we need to remember that we have a common set of objectives here. We want a better life, a better quality of life, a stronger foundation for the next generation. So I think it does start with just stepping back and making sure that we’re being more tolerant and listening to one another. Not that polar views are not healthy and constructive, but you still need to listen. Beyond that though, I think it is important that Canadians understand what’s happening outside of our own borders. The wave of protectionism, the raw competitive spirit that you’re seeing in what used to be called developing nations, now I’m not even sure that’s the right phrase. Because when I look at what’s happening in India and China, and you can look at the Southeast Asia, Taiwan and Singapore. These countries have put policies in place over the last 15 years, and they’re attracting capital and world class talent, they’re hubs now, for really smart people, and that, at the end that’s what your country’s made up of, is your talent and your skills. If all of that talent and skill is starting to migrate to these start-up countries, let’s call it. I do worry, because 15 years from now, where does that leave Canada?

Chuck Magro:

Nutrien has a really big business in Argentina, and it wasn’t too long ago, 75 years ago, where Argentina and Canada had approximately the same economy size, and then Canada because of really smart fore thought and policy, became one of the largest economies in the world. When I go back to Argentina, I always think about Canada, and I was thinking, “Okay, well, are we laying the policies and having the right foresight, so to ensure that we don’t fall behind in the next 20 years?”

Goldy Hyder:

We’re becoming Argentina and the other countries are becoming Canada.

Chuck Magro:

I’m a little worried that that is in fact what’s happening. Because it can happen overnight, and I think maybe we forget that, I know, Canada’s Canada, and there’s no way we’re going to lose our place in the world. There’s no way that people are not going to want to come and join our Country from an immigration perspective or that I can’t start a business and be successful in Canada. I’m not sure that’s true anymore.

Goldy Hyder:

Well, nothing lasts anymore.

Chuck Magro:

That’s the issue. Canadian businesses are generally very supported around the world. Well, people like doing business with Canadians, because we have a certain style, and we do things the right way with high integrity and high ethics.

Goldy Hyder:

Values.

Chuck Magro:

That’s key. But I do think that we need to ensure that we’re positioning the Country relatively speaking, from a competitive perspective, to win, because I think a lot of countries have gotten that right. When you look at the World Bank’s rankings, and all the things that we laid out with the Business Council, we are slipping in the global standards when it comes to how easy we are to do business with, and how competitive we are when it comes to the regulatory environment, the tax environment, all these things people don’t really want to talk about, but they’re foundational to driving a strong economy for the future.

Goldy Hyder:

Well, let’s hope that adversity is that lightning rod for action. I know that you’ve done your part, as I mentioned, through the task force and other things. Let’s return as we wind down here to you again, in terms of being not just a CEO, not just a proud Canadian, but being a dad and being a husband, and having to go through now the responsibility of running this major global champion based here in Canada. How do you do it? How do you get that so called work-life balance, or what I heard somebody in Tokyo say, life-work balance, because the life part should be more important?

Chuck Magro:

I’m not sure balance is real, to be honest with you. I think it’s all a matter of choice.

Goldy Hyder:

It makes you guilty, doesn’t it?

Chuck Magro:

It used to. But the way I think about my different roles as a person, is I’m a dad and a husband forever, I’m a CEO for a shorter period of time. So I would always prioritize my family first. But I miss a lot of things, but that’s conscious. My family understands that that is a sacrifice, but it doesn’t change the core love and support inside of the family structure. But I try to keep as much balance as I can in my life by, sometimes when I travel too much because there are times in the last six years where I’ve been away from my family for 150 to 200 nights a year. You do get off-balance, and that happens-

Goldy Hyder:

I hope my wife’s listening, I’m not so bad after all.

Chuck Magro:

This is tough, right? But I talk to my family every day, and with social media now, it’s a little easier.

Goldy Hyder:

Good enabler, isn’t it?

Chuck Magro:

It is. But you have to find a way and you have to fight for it, and it has to be important to you. But I think there is a way, I consider my biggest success as an individual to be my family. I’m proud of my kids and my wife and what they’ve been able to accomplish.

Goldy Hyder:

What stage of life are they at?

Chuck Magro:

My daughter’s in second year of university. My son’s in his 12th grade. They’re healthy, they’re balanced, they’re trying to find their way through life, and they lean on us and we lean on them. Every hour we spend with them is precious because it’s getting less and less now. But it is something that is hard to do, and it’s not something that you ever give up on.

Goldy Hyder:

You’re cool with that?

Chuck Magro:

I’d like to think so, but as you know asking them probably will give you a different answer. I don’t know.

Goldy Hyder:

Well, I’ve learned some things about you that I didn’t know I have to confess that, I must say, I think it would make you kind of cool. You are a heavy metal fan?

Chuck Magro:

I am. Since I can remember.

Goldy Hyder:

Favorite bands?

Chuck Magro:

Well, Led Zeppelin, Metallica, Iron Maiden, you name it. My son is a metal head too, and for him, he’s been a metal head since he was 13 or 14-

Goldy Hyder:

I wonder where he got that?

Chuck Magro:

We’ve been to probably 50 concerts-

Goldy Hyder:

Probably used to get in the car with his baby seat.

Chuck Magro:

It’s something we do together, same with my wife.

Goldy Hyder:

Are you musicians? You guys play music or anything?

Chuck Magro:

No. We did when we were younger, but no, this is just a passion for music and spending time together and we love it. People look at me and because I get all these invites and I don’t go to much of that stuff-

Goldy Hyder:

Like the cocktail-

Chuck Magro:

The cocktail reception. I’m not a golfer.

Goldy Hyder:

Yeah. You’re not a schnauzer?

Chuck Magro:

No. I’m not.

Goldy Hyder:

Did you not take Angela as her first date to a Metallica concert?

Chuck Magro:

It was one of our very first dates together.

Goldy Hyder:

Was she a metal head before that? Well, she were now.

Chuck Magro:

So the blind, back to the blind date. So when I was getting ready, this is a long time ago now I was all dressed in black because I was heavy metal kid, and my mom says to me, “You cannot go meet a young girl dressed in black, it’s just not right.” So I’m, “This is who I am.” I knock on the door and Angela opens the door and she’s dressed in black. So she was a heavy metal fan too.

Goldy Hyder:

I think you were going to she’s all dressed in white.

Chuck Magro:

No.

Goldy Hyder:

But it’s interesting, you just said, it’s who I am, authenticity. How important is that?

Chuck Magro:

It’s probably the most important thing. I am who I am and maybe I’m old enough now to just be super comfortable in my own skin. But I’ve never tried to subscribe to the corporate, what a CEO should look like or do. I don’t golf, I don’t like golf. It’s four and a half hours of just high-

Goldy Hyder:

You’re missing out, I’ll bless my friend, but that’s okay.

Chuck Magro:

That’s fine, right? That’s what makes the world go around, but it’s not who I am. But I like to shoot. So my son and I, we long distance shoot, we target shoot, we trap and skeet shoot. That’s how we spend a lot of our Saturdays instead of on the golf course.

Goldy Hyder:

You just said being comfortable in your own skin. Tell me the story. I mean, so one of the things that binds you and I is we both love jeeps.

Chuck Magro:

We do love jeeps.

Goldy Hyder:

I mean, I can’t think of a better vehicle to have in Alberta in particular. But setting aside, we’re not sponsored by them, we’re not going to make a commercial out of it. You went to go buy a car and it was not a jeep.

Chuck Magro:

No.

Goldy Hyder:

And you weren’t treated very well.

Chuck Magro:

No.

Goldy Hyder:

Tell me that story.

Chuck Magro:

Yeah. So I went to buy a car because my car was six years old, it was time to change it out. So I go to a dealership, oh, I’ll keep the names innocent here.

Goldy Hyder:

How were you dressed?

Chuck Magro:

I was in black. I was in blue jeans, and I probably had a heavy metal T-shirt on. So I went in and they said to me, “Well, that’s not available for you.” I said, “Well, what do you mean it’s not available for me?” They said, “This specific vehicle is reserved for important people.”

Goldy Hyder:

Literally, that’s what they said?

Chuck Magro:

Yeah. They were polite about it, but it was like-

Goldy Hyder:

“This isn’t over your head kid.”

Chuck Magro:

“They only get two or three into the city a year and they want the right people driving it.” So I am tenacious, so I left the dealership and I know somebody that knows somebody that knows somebody. So I passed the word that, I’m pretty interested in this vehicle. They came back that I was the CEO of a company, and all of a sudden now the access was open, and I was allowed to buy the vehicle. So when I told them that it was me, the guy, they said, “That’s okay, you can still buy the vehicle.” I said, “No.” I walked away from the vehicle. It was just, it’s a small story that actually happened just about a month ago.

Goldy Hyder:

You didn’t get it?

Chuck Magro:

Oh, I didn’t want it. Yeah, I didn’t want it.

Goldy Hyder:

What is it about you that prevented you from saying something as simple as, “Hey, man, I can buy this car, I can buy two of them if I like.”

Chuck Magro:

If that was really the price of admission, I really didn’t want to participate with it. I’ve never done that as a person or a CEO. If that’s really how people think is that, “I’m only selling this car to certain stereotypes.” I don’t want anything to do with it.

Goldy Hyder:

One of the things having traveled with you Chuck, is you come across more as an introvert-style leader, that the case?

Chuck Magro:

Yes. Very introverted. I’d say almost borderline shy.

Goldy Hyder:

That’s one of the things that seems to come out in more of our members than I would have thought would be the case. Why do you think that is?

Chuck Magro:

Well, I don’t know exactly. Again, it’s who I am. I can do it and I do it for, it’s part of my job.

Goldy Hyder:

You got to perform when you need to perform.

Chuck Magro:

But then I will need downtime, and it does consume energy. It doesn’t produce energy for me, it consumes energy. But I think that’s okay, because I am more reflective. I am a thinker, and my daily schedule is, people say is a little weird. I get up at about 4:00 in the morning, and I work till around 6:00 or 6:30 in my home office, and that’s my time where I think, and I journal, and then I work out and then I come into the office. So I come into the office quite late, between 8:00 and 9:00, sometimes it’s 9:00 in the morning. But by then I’ve done my thinking, and I’ve built my energy up to what I need to do. But that sets the company in motion, that sets the planning that I think I need to do as part of my job. It also conveys-

Goldy Hyder:

Is it seven days a week or five days a week that you do that?

Chuck Magro:

Six. Well, I actually get up at 4:00 seven days a week, but I work six days a week. I don’t work Saturday, so Saturday’s is generally a family day.

Goldy Hyder:

So how do you relax?

Chuck Magro:

Well, I relax when I’m with my family. So it’s a standard things, we’ll go to Costco, we’ll get some steaks and we’ll barbecue on a Saturday night. If we don’t have a commitment. Even when I’m in Calgary, I don’t do a lot of dinners at night in the city, and if I do, I’ll probably the guy that’s known to have 5:00 dinners. We had one last night it was at 5:30, but I was back at home by 8:30 at night because I wanted to have at least an hour or two with the family before they go to bed. So that’s the important part, is you have to find what works for you.

Goldy Hyder:

First of all, I admire your 4:00 AM wake up routine, I’ve heard many others who get up at the same time every day irrespective of work or not. But you also referenced journaling. Now, that’s very interesting. I think it might be the first time I’ve heard that. What goes into this journal, and why do you do it?

Chuck Magro:

Well, everything goes into it, and-

Goldy Hyder:

I’m afraid what you’re going to say about this podcast now, now I’m nervous?

Chuck Magro:

Yeah. Look, it helps me think. So I don’t know why, but there’s a connection between my pen and my brain. So it allows me to get my thoughts out in a way that is comprehendible and actionable. I can’t do that by just staring out the window, I need to put it on paper so I can see it and think through it. So it depends on what I’m going through. It could be something personal, it could be something work-related, a combination of both. If you were to look at the journal, you’d look at, “Okay, that’s just nonsense. It doesn’t mean anything,” but it helps me sort of process my thoughts in a way that I can do something with them.

Chuck Magro:

I’ve tried different things over many years. But the journaling for me absolutely works, so I get up early in the morning and if something’s on my mind, I got a blank page in front of me, and I can process, and usually by the time I go down to my gym to work out, I have a plan.

Goldy Hyder:

Do you ever go back and look at what you said and what you wrote one year ago, five years ago, 10 years ago?

Chuck Magro:

Yeah. I used to do that quite a bit, now because of the role I’m in actually, I’m advised that those books should not stay around.

Goldy Hyder:

Why is that?

Chuck Magro:

Well, just because there are work-sensitive material in those journals.

Goldy Hyder:

Hard to hack a journal.

Chuck Magro:

It’s hard to hack a journal, but just to keep all the records clean, I keep them for about a year and then-

Goldy Hyder:

Purge.

Chuck Magro:

I purge them.

Goldy Hyder:

So you turned 50?

Chuck Magro:

I did.

Goldy Hyder:

Any midlife crisis or was that the car?

Chuck Magro:

No. Not the car. At least I don’t think that car’s a midlife crisis car, but I wouldn’t say a crisis, but there’s there’s always reflection of course when you reach whatever the milestone is, it’ll be a different age for different group but-

Goldy Hyder:

You know 50 is the new 40 right?

Chuck Magro:

Yeah. Okay, that’s what everybody tells me. I look I’m excited about what’s ahead for my family and for me, I am. I’m an optimist, and 50 is young still, I would agree with that comment and there’s, people aren’t even using the R word at all now, which I think that is a great thing. You can have second, third, fourth careers, whether that’s in business or doing something else, and right now I’m just enjoying the moment. Running a company like Nutrien is an honor and a privilege and I’m going to do it as long as they let me.

Goldy Hyder:

So when you look back one day, what do you want the legacy to be?

Chuck Magro:

That we, so not me, but that we, there are so many people that go into this, built something, built something we are proud of. You said Canadian champion, Canada’s proud of, but the 25, 000 employees are proud of, that we did something good for the planet, that we did something good for our stakeholders. I want there to be something left that I can look back on and say, “I had a small part to do with making that.” By nature, I’m a builder and I think building something is important.

Goldy Hyder:

Well, knowing you, I’d bet on you my friend.

Chuck Magro:

Thank you.

Goldy Hyder:

Thank you for doing this, really appreciate it.

Chuck Magro:

Thanks, Goldy. It was fun.

Goldy Hyder:

Thanks again to Chuck Magro for being my guest on this episode of Speaking of Business. Subscribe now for more conversations with Canada’s top innovators, entrepreneurs and business leaders. Search Speaking of Business wherever you find podcasts or visit speakingofbiz.ca that’s biz with a Z to join our email list and follow us on social media. Until next time, I’m Goldy Hyder.