Fostering innovation: Éric Martel of Bombardier

Eric Martel:

We design and fly airplanes. You know that there are very few countries in the world that can do that. And we’re very lucky as Canadians. We can do from A to Z. We can design an airplane. We can build it here and we know how to fly it. There’s about five countries in the world that can do it from the beginning.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Welcome to Speaking of Business, conversations with Canadian innovators, entrepreneurs and leaders. I’m Goldy Hyder, president and CEO of the Business Council of Canada. I often talk on this podcast about Canadian champions. How can we build more homegrown companies that can compete with the best in the world? If there’s a playbook, it might be found at Bombardier.

Just think about the innovation that has come out of the Montreal-based company for more than 80 years. It started by revolutionizing winter travel with the Ski-Doo. In the 1970s, Bombardier moved into train travel at a time when mass transit was burgeoning in North American cities, and now it’s on the forefront of aviation. Go to any airport in the world and you’re likely to see a Bombardier jet. The innovation, research and development that keeps Bombardier on the cutting edge happens right here in Canada. That translates into thousands of high-paying Canadian jobs and billions of dollars contributing to Canada’s GDP.

I don’t think there’s anyone prouder of Bombardier’s success than its President and CEO, Éric Martel. Welcome to the podcast, Éric.

 

Éric Martel:

Thank you, Goldy, for having me here.

 

Goldy Hyder:

It’s so good to have you here. We know each other well, so I know that I want to drill down on a number of issues that you care about, but let’s start first and foremost with you. You personally, I love reading the fact that it seems cliche-ish given you’re running Bombardier, but you wanted to be a pilot.

 

Éric Martel:

Yeah, I wanted to. It’s a good question.

 

Goldy Hyder:

What happened?

 

Éric Martel:

What happened? So maybe just to give you a bit of context so I come from a very modest environment, grew up. And when I was a teenager, I was in the Cadets. I will always say actually this was probably as important as going to regular school. I learned a lot there. This is where I had my first leadership experience. Being knowledgeable about the movement, I went during my summer jobs were all in the Cadets. I went to summer camp there. And then at the end of my high school I said, “What do I do?” So I registered to go to military college, but I wanted to be a pilot. And unfortunately in those years, that goes back to the eighties, my eyes were not strong enough and they said, “Unfortunately …”

 

Goldy Hyder:

“Not going to happen.”

 

Éric Martel:

“It’s not going to happen.” So I was disappointed, of course. I was devastated, to be honest. And I decided not to join the Army then. I said I changed my plans and I went to Laval University. I’m an electrical engineer, so this is the reason why I’m not a pilot today, but I’m in the aerospace business.

 

Goldy Hyder:

You’re in the aerospace business, for sure. I want to ask you more about that, but first you just mentioned how Cadets were influential from a perspective of leadership. Tell me what you learned back then about leadership.

 

Éric Martel:

This is an amazing opportunity when you’re teenager. First of all, you’re still learning about yourself. You don’t know who you are completely. And I was exposed at 13 years old to be in front of a class and teaching kids of my age, sometimes a bit younger. And then you go to the summer camp, they say, “You’re going to be a sargeant this summer,” and then you’re responsible for 50 kids, 30 kids. And I ended up being the master chief of the camp in Valcartier. I was 18 years old responsible for 2,000 people.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Wow.

 

Éric Martel:

So I learned a lot about myself then about what is to be a leader. I made mistakes, and that it was okay. I learned about it and I was always saying even if I have a bad leader in front of me, I need to learn from that because sometimes you have bosses or people you say, “Hey…,”

 

Goldy Hyder:

Awful.

 

Éric Martel:

“…terrible, why are they doing that to me?”

 

Goldy Hyder:

They don’t say that about you and me, someone else.

 

Éric Martel:

Maybe they do, but I was always thinking that way and saying what do I learn from something that I don’t want to do to my people? And the people are very important as you become a leader. We’ll talk about it I’m sure later, but this was for me as important as I said, to learn about me and to learn about my ability to be a leader and how to be a good leader also.

 

Goldy Hyder:

I think we discount how important early childhood and early experiences in life are. You mentioned that you failed.

 

Éric Martel:

Yeah.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Can you think of the lessons you learned from that?

 

Éric Martel:

Yeah, but it gives me an opportunity. There’s things there that I’ve made that I learned about not doing after. When you become a leader, especially when you’re young, you want to put your authority in place.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Authority and power.

 

Éric Martel:

Show and power, that’s the worst thing to do. You learn that later. But it gives me a bit of an edge because when I started my career, my first job I remember I had just a small group of people. I was a supervisor at Procter & Gamble on the shop floor. And I knew already a bit about leadership, probably more than I thought myself. It went very well, and to the point where just a couple of years later I was a plant manager and I learned to manage a big group of people. So I was not even 30 I had like 1,000 people under my responsibility.

 

Goldy Hyder:

That’s half what you had when you were 18.

 

Éric Martel:

Exactly, but it’s actually something you have to learn because it’s different managing a group of 50 professionals in an office than managing a group of people that today are in different time zones, different cultures, so you need to learn that. And the sooner you learn this, because you always make mistakes at first, the more helpful it is later in your career.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Now speaking of career, you mentioned you were at Procter & Gamble there, P&G for a while. How did you make your way into Bombardier? When did that happen?

 

Éric Martel:

So Procter & Gamble decided to close the plant. I went to Kraft for a couple of years, fantastic experience. I learned so much in these two jobs. I love managing, and I was a production supervisor working on three shifts, night shift, day shift, afternoon. And also I had a job of project engineer on the shop floor. So I love the manufacturing environment. And I ended up in aerospace at Pratt & Whitney Canada just a few years later. And then I worked with Rolls-Royce, and then joined Bombardier. And probably that I joined Bombardier for 15 years, and I run the whole operation at the beginning on the train side. A lot of people think I was always in aerospace-

 

Goldy Hyder:

Aerospace.

 

Éric Martel:

…but I went to trains. They asked me to come back to aerospace for many years. And then I left and went to manage Hydro-Québec for about five years and then came back as CEO of Bombardier.

 

Goldy Hyder:

And since you’ve come back, you’ve been really pushing the envelope on a number of things, particularly in aviation innovation. Talk to me about where Bombardier is today in its journey.

 

Éric Martel:

This is interesting. Innovation has always been in the DNA of our company. This is how we got created, and we’re a problem solver. Joseph-Armand Bombardier, 80 years ago when he invented the snowmobile, was trying to solve a problem. You may know that one of his kids passed because he couldn’t get him to the hospital because there was a winter storm.

 

Goldy Hyder:

No, I did not know that.

 

Éric Martel:

And then he revert back and the guy was a brilliant mechanical engineer. He decided to invent the snowmobile so that this does not happen again, and that’s how it started. So he was driven, but again when I said we’re a problem solver, you’re trying to improve people’s lives with technology, and that’s what we do today. We do probably I think one of the things that is a very significant for an engineer, we design and fly airplanes. You know that there are very few countries in the world that can do that. And we’re very lucky as Canadians. We can do from A to Z. We can design an airplane. We can build it here and we know how to fly it. There’s about five countries in the world that can do it from the beginning, so that’s a super advantage also we have and we can talk later about that.

 

Goldy Hyder:

I’d like to understand it.

 

Éric Martel:

We should leverage that even more, even more actually. So there’s a long history there. We started with the military, et cetera. We learn and learn and learn. And today that knowledge resides not just in Bombardier, but a lot of this resides in our company. And today we make, and I’m not self-promoting Bombardier here, but we make the flagship of the industry, the Global 7500.

 

Goldy Hyder:

It’s a beautiful plane.

 

Éric Martel:

It is the airplane that’s flying further, higher, faster than anything else, and the quality of the interior is made here. So we should be very proud as Canadians.

To your point earlier, I’m flying a lot. I’m traveling a lot because we’re an exporter. At the same time we create the jobs here in this country for most of them, 33,000, 34,000 jobs in Canada with our suppliers, but we are exporting pretty much everything we do.

So I’m traveling, and you’re right, I land, I’m always proud. I land in an airport. I’ve never landed in an airport actually right now without seeing on a Bombardier plane around. We’re always at somewhere and sometime. I was in Teterboro last week in New York, there was at least 50 airplanes of ours on the tarmac. So we have-

 

Goldy Hyder:

You got to feel proud.

 

Éric Martel:

We feel proud. I say, “Hey, I’m a Canadian,” but we’re everywhere. We’re everywhere, and we’re making this country shining, I hope so, all around the world.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Well, I mentioned the Canadian champions. There’s this cultural thing in Canada it seems sometimes that we like to rip down the successful, but I’m not sure Canadians feel that way the way we used to think. There’s more and more evidence that they actually want to be proud. And I sometimes call this the Blackberry Phenomenon, like everybody knew a Blackberry was a Canadian thing. Do you feel that Bombardier is in that place now where Canadians are rooting for it?

 

Éric Martel:

I think more and more. I think we had our years where there was some challenges. I think today people understand that we’re an autonomous business. I haven’t got any government funding in the last five years. It’s always been a subject, and there’s a lot of your …

 

Goldy Hyder:

Usually we say, “Get out of our way. Just give us the rules.”

 

Éric Martel:

Yeah, but it’s serious. So today I think I have a loan of 200 million that I need to reimburse to the government and they’re going to make money out of it at the end of the day. So it’s actually much less costly than whenever we try to attract a foreigner to come and invest here. Then we’re willing to pay billions of dollars.

 

Goldy Hyder:

And your competition is probably being heavily subsidized in their home countries.

 

Éric Martel:

They are, significantly, especially by the military side. So U.S. companies, French companies, they do develop innovation and technology sponsored by defence, put it on a military airplane and then one day it’s on the civil airplane that I’m competing with. So they have a huge advantage there because usually on our side most of it we’re doing it.

So there’s different ways of getting there, but we’re proud today that we’re very autonomous. But I think there’s something here to think about also for our country because we do have amazing people here in innovation. You look at small businesses today, very innovative. And I think a big question we have is how do we help them to grow and become the next champion? And I know some of them turn-

 

Goldy Hyder:

There must be an ecosystem around this.

 

Éric Martel:

Exactly, there’s an ecosystem of going to the next step. We’re pretty good at doing the research and coming up with amazing ideas, but the next step of taking these guys and making them national champions is not our best right now, and I think we should think about why and how we do this clearly.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Well, you mentioned the talent. How important is the access to talent for your business and for the growth of your business?

 

Éric Martel:

It’s absolutely bread and butter. And one of the reasons we’re very fortunate of being in Montreal, we have a lot of universities. And Toronto is the same thing because we have a significant operation in Toronto. This is where we build the Global, actually. We have 2,200, 2,400, 2,500 people and we can attract engineers, and we can find the quality engineers we need for our business, which is the top of technology. Building an airplane is not easy.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Not easy.

 

Éric Martel:

Otherwise all countries would do it, but we can find these people here. So this is a unique place, and I think we’ve done a good job, a relatively good job as a country to have the schools available, have the programs that are rich enough so that we can get these people from here.

So in Montreal, if you look at the parade of students versus population, it’s one of the highest in North America, probably has as high as Boston. So this is something we can tap into. So this is key. I think what I was saying earlier is this is the part where we have all these people that can invent something or create something. How do we help them to go to the next step and get their business going?

 

Goldy Hyder:

Right. We also touched on the fact that you’re proudly Canadian, that you’re based mostly in Quebec with lots of roots in rural Quebec, probably where the snowmobile came from as you mentioned. Had not heard that story. Thank you for sharing that story. Tragedy turned into-

 

Éric Martel:

Innovation.

 

Goldy Hyder:

…a solution. Sometimes that’s what it takes, unfortunately. But I mean you could be anywhere in the world, and there’s no doubt in my mind that you’re probably wooed to settle anywhere in the world. How do you explain the commitment to Canada that Bombardier has shown?

 

Éric Martel:

And I think through our history, I’m sure you can understand, we had occasion of going elsewhere.

 

Goldy Hyder:

I’m aware. That’s what I was saying.

 

Éric Martel:

Other governments that approach us and say, “Hey, we’ll build a plant for you.” We still have a family that is extremely supportive and still control the company and they had occasion. But I think they were proud of being here, proud Canadians, and they wanted to keep the head office here. They wanted to keep the jobs here. We sell less and less airplanes here in Canada. So we sell maybe two, three per cent of our airplanes, but everything else is exported. So we are an exporter. We’re part of the top 10 exporters of this country.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Story of Canada, we’re just not big enough.

 

Éric Martel:

That’s exactly. So the market is not big enough, but we are exporting. But the jobs, Bombardier out of the 18,000 jobs, I have about 12,000, 13,000 here in Canada. And the rest are outside, but they are supporting mainly the operation, services centres and things like that. I have one plant in Mexico and one in the U.S., but the main of the jobs are here in Canada.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Let’s talk about how do you foster more Bombardiers? So let’s not talk about Bombardier specifically, but in terms of the innovation ecosystem, the need for an industrial policy approach. And we can talk about defence as well because there’s some, you would’ve seen our paper-

 

Éric Martel:

There a picture there.

 

Goldy Hyder:

…about industrial defence space. How do you see Canada positioning itself?

 

Éric Martel:

Well, you just mentioned defence. Defence is clearly something that we used to do as a country that we’ve lost over the years. Today we prefer to go and buy a product that is off the shelf. And I think there’s a possibility for us today to work better and better in being more connected with defence and with the industrial and say, “What do we need as a country? What do you guys need?” And again, I said it earlier, we’re a problem solver. What do you need in five years, seven years, 10 years down the road?

And we have smart people here, not just in Bombardier. I do have a lot of smart people in Bombardier, but we can go and there’s other companies, there’s an ecosystem of very capable companies. I’m thinking of GDMS here based in Ottawa. Why do we not get together and say, “What are your issues?” And I think to be fair, that dialogue was not existing two years ago. I think I’ve seen in the last six months that dialogue starting, but we need to do more of that. I think to start thinking about what are the problems you’re trying to solve, what are you looking for? And again, with the capability we have, we can come up with solutions in a fairly reasonable time.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Now in business, of course, you have regulations, you have the role of government, you have industrial policy, all of these things are in play. How do you see the relationship between Bombardier and a federal government? It doesn’t matter if it’s today’s federal government or past federal governments or future federal governments. What is the ideal nature of a relationship between a business and between a government?

 

Éric Martel:

I think there’s a fine line, but I think our politicians are elected to represent our people. We do represent our people too. I have, as I said-

 

Goldy Hyder:

Your customers are their voters.

 

Éric Martel:

Exactly, exactly.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Your employees are their voters.

 

Éric Martel:

Exactly, their voters. So I think we need to connect together and understand how do we make this country successful. It’s not about me. It’s not about just my company, but we should be having discussions and continuous dialogue with our champions in this country. Not just Bombardier, but we have a lot of other companies that do well. Think about CGI. Think about internationally also.

 

Goldy Hyder:

CAE also.

 

Éric Martel:

CAE is another one. So I think we can leverage that by better working together. I feel today that there is a bit of a, the government’s doing its stuff on the side, the business are doing their stuff on their side. I think we would have much more value altogether by working together. And there’s nothing wrong. It’s not about I’m managing your business, you’re managing the government. I think we are managing a country.

 

Goldy Hyder:

It should be a partnership.

 

Éric Martel:

We all want to be successful. It should be a partnership to say, “How can I help you? How can you help me?” And it’s not about me, it’s about creating more jobs, creating more value for the country. The reality is the private creates a lot of the jobs in this country, and I think we can do better.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Well, speaking of doing better, you saw the Business Council of Canada issued a report a little while ago called Security and Prosperity, which called for Canada to establish an actual defence industrial base.

 

Éric Martel:

Really.

 

Goldy Hyder:

The idea of being more integrated with not just the United States, but more broadly our allies where we can be. You’ve been very outspoken about Canada’s defence industry and the role of Canadian companies. We’ve heard a bit of that already. What do you want to see done?

 

Éric Martel:

I think exactly what I just said. We should put a plan together. And I’m responsible for my company. If at the end of the day I’m not capable of doing it, I won’t say that we’re capable. If we can, we can. If we can’t, we can’t.

 

But I think there’s so much strength in our country about innovation, about very capable people on the technology front that like to take problems and solve them. We’re going to be talking in the next coming weeks about how do we sort out the border security and things like that. That’s a subject. There’s all kinds of things we can help with, but we should work these issues not when they happen. We should be much more proactive and say, “What do we need,” as I said earlier, “in five, seven, 10 years down the road so that we work on it today?”

 

And the Americans are an example for that. We won a contract a year ago, last December, a program called HADES. We’re doing the research on this. We’re doing the technology. We’re creating their next airplane for surveillance that’s going to be like the new top of the league. And we are, Bombardier as Canadians, contributing to that for the most of it. And you know what they do after?

 

So this is going to create jobs in the U.S. because a lot of the systems come from the U.S. We provide the airplane. I have also an operation down in Kansas where we’re going to modify the airplane for that operation. But then after the U.S. government’s going to go and knock on the door of the allies and say, “You should buy that product if you want to be integrated with us and be able to communicate.” So this is going to create jobs in the U.S. again.

 

So likely on this one we’re going to be creating jobs in Canada too, but why don’t we do the same thing? We could do that, working together ahead, test the product. So they do invest. The Army, I’m telling you right now, is paying all the research and everything, but they know that it’s an investment that will help their Army to be of course at the top. But at the same time, they know that it’s going to create jobs in the long run in the United States. We could do the same thing. We could do the same thing.

 

Goldy Hyder:

I’ve often heard CEOs say that they feel it’s almost like they’re handicapped to be Canadian with their own government, that governments reward other companies to come into there and compete. Do you feel that way?

 

Éric Martel:

Yeah, I do, I do. I think it’s a fair thing. We all talk about amongst ourselves, CEOs, and sometimes you look at what we would do to attract foreign companies. Not even to have their head office here, but just an operation or they say they have the North American operation, but clearly they will have a different approach I would say with them.

 

I think sometimes we’re being taken for granted and I think they say, “Oh, they’re here. We don’t need to take care of them. They’re not going anywhere, but we need to attract other people.” But to be honest, I think if we would take all the money right now that is being spent on foreign companies and look with our different champions and say, “If we would put that money at your disposition,” I think we could create even more quality jobs.

 

Goldy Hyder:

I feel like Canadians would agree with you, but the narrative coming from our political leaders is we’re the bad guys, the CEOs are the bad guys.

 

Éric Martel:

And I don’t know why is that. I think we need to work again together. We have different roles. Why is it that we cannot dream about Bombardier? We’re committed to this country. I’m Canadian. My kids are here. My family grew up here. For hundreds of years now, we’ve been here. But why is it that we’re not dreaming about Bombardier not creating 33,000 jobs, but 100? But ask me the question and ask me what I need to do that. But there’s things I could do to get there, but maybe we need a bit of help and we’re committed to this country. We’re going to be here probably in 25 years, 50 years around, but I think we could help a big portion of that growth with the existing champions.

 

Goldy Hyder:

And I think that Canadians and certainly would be conscious that if they felt that the Americans or the Brazilians or the Spanish or the French or the Germans take care of their own, stand up for their own. Why would we penalize our own?

 

Éric Martel:

Absolutely, and I don’t know. An example of that-

 

Goldy Hyder:

An odd Canadian trait.

 

Éric Martel:

Yeah, exactly. And this is something that the government I think needs to ask themselves. The luxury tax is an example of that. Today, and I’ve said that to the government, I said, “We’re two years into this. Usually were selling about 10 airplanes a year in Canada. Now we’re selling about three to four because people don’t want to pay the tax.” But the reality is the six or seven airplanes less than I do are less jobs at the plant. You know what is even worse, Goldy, is we would’ve paid more taxes to the government if I would’ve produced 10. So they are losing money and I’m losing opportunity to build more airplanes and creating more jobs in this country.

So sometimes we need to, I think they need to go back and say, “Okay, maybe they tried something, and fair. We thought that this was going to happen.” I hate to say that I think we were right-

 

Goldy Hyder:

I told you so.

 

Éric Martel:

…but we were. And two years later, I think they have the right to reassess and say, “It doesn’t work. Maybe we need to go back,” so especially right now in the context of the tariff threat.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Well, sometimes we talked about failure leading to good outcomes and maybe this will be the case. Let me move on to something else that I know is important to businesses here in Canada and chief executives take this very seriously, and that is the role that innovation is playing in the climate, the need for sustainable aviation in your case, the challenge of… I mean there’s a lot of challenges. I’m pretty sure I don’t want to fly on a plane that’s doing solar or wind. What are you going to do to-

 

Éric Martel:

That’s a good question.

 

Goldy Hyder:

…to decarbonize air travel? How do you do it?

 

Éric Martel:

So I think when you look at it, first of all there is a history in our industry of reducing emissions. If you go back and take an airplane that was flying in the sixties, 60 years later, we probably burn half of the fuel we used to burn then. It’s always been part of our journey as an industry-

 

Goldy Hyder:

It’s good business.

 

Éric Martel:

…to reduce emissions because it’s good business for us. Reduce utilization, it reduces the cost of operation, and of course the owner of the airplane likes it. So that’s important to know. Today we’re all committed to get to carbon-neutral by 2050 and there is real initiative. I’m spending about 80 per cent of my R&D budget today, 80 per cent, 8-0 on reducing emissions. I don’t know if you go on YouTube right now and you say, “Bombardier EcoJet,” we’ve redesigned the shape of the airplane completely ourselves, and just changing the shape of the airplane will reduce the emissions by 20 per cent. So this is pure innovation, Goldy. This is something we’re using our own money of the company to do that because we know it’s going to be more and more important for our customer.

 

Goldy Hyder:

We’re now taping this in the middle of December just before the Christmas break. A new president, former President Trump will take office on January the 20th. He has already threatened 25 per cent tariffs on Canada and other countries as well. First of all, how would 25 per cent tariffs impact Bombardier, and by extension Bombardier’s customers and/or place in Canada? And then I’ll ask you more broadly, what do we do about this issue?

 

Éric Martel:

The honest answer is that it will have an impact at 25 per cent, but then is it going to be 25, how long is it going to last? So there’s different scenarios that of course as a responsible CEO in my company, my executive team we’re looking into. The reality is Bombardier is significant in Canada, but I’m also significant in the U.S. I have 2,800 suppliers in the U.S. based in 46 states. I’m spending about 3 billion a year in the U.S. buying goods that cross the border, come here, put them on the assembly line, install them on the airplane like engines, as an example, I’m buying engines from Honeywell. I’m buying engines from GE, the all-American company. I’m buying avionics from RTX.

 

So actually when we look at the map, if I have to do layoffs because I’m doing less airplanes and things like that, it’s going to hurt here. It’s going to hurt me. It’s going to hurt the country. It’s going to hurt my employees, everybody, but they’re going to have as much impact on the other side of the border. So that’s why I’m saying at some point common sense should prevail and somebody’s going to look into that and say, “Okay, I’m doing damages here, and I’m going to do damages here. I’m going to collect tariffs maybe at the end of the day, or maybe I’m not going to collect tariffs if I’m not selling that many airplanes in U.S.” So I’m not even sure here who’s going to win what.

 

But I think to go to your question, so that’s my own case, but I think as a country right now, we need to cool down. We’ll need strong leadership. And leadership right now is not like 10 leaders or 20 leaders going all around saying one thing and the other guy’s saying something different. It’s time to be unified and it should not be a public negotiation. I know that it says what they’re going to do, but I think we should keep it for ourselves, and we should build a leverage point too.

 

This is a negotiation, guys. Nothing more. He’s doing it a certain way. There’s other ways to do it also. But I think it’s purely about how do I create leverage points. And we do have a lot of leverage points, guys. We’re 25 per cent of the oil they’re using. We’re supporting electricity every year massively.

 

Goldy Hyder:

They want our critical minerals.

 

Éric Martel:

Exactly. So how do we leverage that to say, “Hey, you got leverage. It’s nice that you do it socially because it gets more people, but here are the facts. How do we make a deal?” Because that’s what he wants to make, he wants to make a deal. There’ll be an election in the U.S. in two years from now. It’s coming very fast. He has a lot of power right now to do it because he controls the Senate and the Chamber and he needs to make it happen in the next two years. He doesn’t know what’s going to happen in two years at the election. Especially if we put these tariffs, he has a very high risk that inflation is going to go up.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Inflation, yeah.

 

Éric Martel:

People won’t be happy. So he has a short period of time. I think we’re in the crunch of it right now. He’s getting ready. But at the same time, I think it’s going to be a pragmatic approach, but we need who’s going to be at the table, what’s the mandate, and make sure that everybody else is going to say, “Okay, I’m supportive of that then.” So now leadership is at a critical point and we need that leadership now, not in two years.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Do you have a point of view on this debate taking place about a trilateral agreement versus a bilateral agreement?

 

Éric Martel:

I think Mexico will be important. I think over the years, the reality, Goldy, is we have integrated our supply chain.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Exactly.

 

Éric Martel:

The first agreement happened in the eighties, and aerospace is an example. The car industry is the same. I got parts that go back and forth.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Railway.

 

Éric Martel:

Railway, exactly. We build things in Mexico, they come to Canada, they go back to the U.S., they come back here. This is going to be a huge issue if we all start to split it. So I think we’ve made that agreement 30, 40 years ago, now the first one, and I think because of the rules that were in place, we’ve integrated our supply chain significantly. So I think clearly the best approach right now is to keep all the three countries in.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Well, I want to go off the U.S. for a minute here and just as we wind down I want to ask you, because I’m a very proud Albertan and I was raised and taught by Peter Lougheed in one of my courses, and he would always say, “My best friend at every first minister’s conference was the premier of Quebec.” And so I just thought it’d be a great opportunity for a leader from Quebec, someone like yourself, to just share with our listeners, how’s the province doing? How do you feel about Quebec?

 

Éric Martel:

I think Quebec is doing fine. We have our own issues like the health system, and I think we’re not the only one. There’s always that tension between Ottawa and Quebec. So we live the same thing, but I think we’re not unique also in that regard.

 

I think overall Quebec is doing fine. If you look at the unemployment, if you look at the growth of the economy, I was talking earlier about we have a good university system, educated people. We have our own issues. But I was telling someone the other day also, we have our issues in this country, but at the same time, it’s a safe country. Yes, I pay a lot of taxes, but I can walk anywhere in Montreal at night and I’m not in danger. There’s not many cities in the world, including in the U.S., that you can say that. And I think we’re unique in that regard, that I think we’ve kept peace in this country, and I think we need to preserve that. I think we need to preserve that.

 

And I think sometimes I’m concerned about the rich becoming richer and the poor poorer. So that’s something we need to think about. I think the government right now though is not doing it the right way. Like luxury tax is an example. It’s true that if you go in front of the crowd and you say, “We’re going to tax the rich more,” everybody’s going to say, “Great idea.” But at the same time, if they’re buying less airplanes, in our case, and they’re creating less jobs in the plant, I’m not sure we’ve won anything. So I think we need to find the right balance and we need to keep that peace that is, I think, dear to us.

 

Goldy Hyder:

This is the danger I’ve always said about populism. Great politics, horrible public policy.

 

Éric Martel:

Clearly, clearly.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Be careful what you wish for.

 

Éric Martel:

Clearly.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Okay, one thing I will say about chief executives, there’s not one I’ve met who has not told me that they see life half glass full, that they’re eternal optimists. So tell me, what are you optimistic about today? Despite everything going on, what are you feeling good about?

 

Éric Martel:

I’m feeling good, but first of all the trend of my business is very favorable. Business aviation has been adapted over the years, and that’s another example. I understand that not everybody can fly private, but it should not be a shame to say, “Hey, we’re doing business jets.”

 

Goldy Hyder:

If you’re not doing it, someone else will be doing it.

 

Éric Martel:

Exactly. First of all, someone else. But the reality is also is the fact that I’m building 150 a year of these jets, I’m creating 34,000 jobs in this country.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Well, that was all the easy part of the podcast. The hard part is the last question where I’m going to do some rapid fire questions at you. Your favorite part of Montreal?

 

Éric Martel:

The Old Montreal.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Favorite place to travel?

 

Éric Martel:

London.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Your favorite music?

 

Éric Martel:

My favorite music is jazz.

 

Goldy Hyder:

One piece of advice for young people who are listening to this podcast?

 

Éric Martel:

Always stay grounded.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Says the guy in aviation. Love it.

 

Éric Martel:

No, but seriously, you’re right, but I think the guys know me for one thing at Bombardier is, yes, I can go talk to my customers but I can go in the shop every day, which I do a lot, and I will always talk with my employees and being equal to equal. So I think staying close to people, being accessible as a leader is very, very important and modest.

 

Goldy Hyder:

You’re very strongly involved in Montreal Centraide, which is effectively the United Way as people know it. Do you have any memories of any significant impacts you’ve seen from that charitable work?

 

Éric Martel:

I’ve been involved since 1998 in Centraide, so it’s going to be close to 30 years, more than 25 now. And I’ve seen so many things that this organization is doing to help associations. We’re supporting about 350, 360 different groups. And I’ve seen real-life examples of impacting peoples’ lives. I remember that lady that explained to me, she said, “Hey, my husband left. I have three kids. I was left with no apartment, no job, no nothing and Centraide helped me. They gave me for about a year a place to stay and I was there with my three kids. And you know what? They helped me actually to start my own business.”

 

Goldy Hyder:

Wow.

 

Éric Martel:

I said, “Wow, this is quite an example.” So those things are important. And when I said if we want to keep social peace in this country, those are the things we need to be interested by.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Yeah, indeed. Okay, the hardest question of all, who’s your favorite Montreal Canadien of all time?

 

Éric Martel:

Guy Lafleur.

 

Goldy Hyder:

I knew you were going to say that.

 

Éric Martel:

You know I was going to say that. It’s too easy. But we were winning the Stanley Cup in the 70s.

 

Goldy Hyder:

There’s so many great Canadians. You have to admit that.

 

Éric Martel:

I was a kid at the time with my number 10 in the back, so of course.

 

Goldy Hyder:

The flower.

 

Éric Martel:

The flower.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Well listen, you’ve been terrific. Thank you for doing this.

 

Éric Martel:

Thank you, Goldy.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Great to have you here, Éric, and really appreciate you sharing.

 

Éric Martel:

Thank you. Same to you. Thank you so much.

 

Goldy Hyder:

Éric Martel is the president and CEO of Bombardier. If you would like to hear more of our Speaking of Business conversations with innovators, leaders, and entrepreneurs, why not subscribe to our podcast? Search for Speaking of Business wherever you get your podcasts or simply go to our website at thebusinesscouncil.ca, yes, it’s thebusinesscouncil.ca. Until next time, I’m Goldy Hyder. Thanks for joining us.